In this episode Jess talks with Brynna Wilson – a Financial advisor and money coach in Denver, Colorado. She is also one of our featured advisors from the Women’s Wealth Boutique. Brynna discusses behavioral finance and what that truly means. She also gets into her own personal feelings towards money growing up and how that ultimately ended up impacting her spending as an adult.
Brynna also gets into how becoming a part of the Women’s Wealth Boutique allowed her to finally break out of that traditional “box” and really expand her creativity. She explains just how important the work-life balance really is.
– Its important to really examine your own financial behaviors and where those come from
-There is value in being able to express yourself professionally and not being confined to a box of traditional thinking
-Always work smarter not harder!
-You’ll see that you show up very differently for a job where you are truly happy
Contact our guest:
Jessica Weaver 00:02
Hello, welcome to Women behind the millions. I am Jessica Weaver, your host, Best Selling Author, wealth advisor and founder of the Woman’s Wealth Boutique. And I am so excited. We’re one of the og’s at the woman’s wealth boutique. Brynna Wilson with us here today. She is a wealth advisor, a money coach, she focuses on behavioral finance, cannot wait to talk about that today. In Colorado, she loves building with wealth for minority communities, really getting involved in her local community, as well as making real impact in this world with money. So thank you, Brynna for being here with us today. So excited to talk with you. How’s it going with you?
Brynna Wilson 00:43
Oh, it’s great. Thanks for having me. I love talking about this stuff. So I’m really excited to be here today.
Jessica Weaver 00:49
What got you into behavioral finance? And I’m guessing the psychology behind how we operate, think about money, everything from the time when a thought pops into our mind with money to us acting out on it, what got you into it?
Brynna Wilson 01:04
Yeah, great question. You know, when I say behavioral finance, I feel like I have to describe what it is, even though it’s kind of self explanatory, right? Most people understand what that means. But it’s really because I have done a lot of personal growth and personal work. And I was using life coaches and therapists and just trying to figure out how does my mind work? So that I could be more aware of what’s going on. And I found that within that I have had to deal with my own behavioral finances, where what are my behaviors? What’s my mindset and thought process behind money, so that I can improve that and I’m finding that you can’t make lasting changes unless you actually look at the behaviors and the psychology behind it. Because you start with why everyone tells you to start with why , when you’re in your own business. And I think that it’s really important, you know, as kids, you have kids, right? And they go through that phase of that why phase where they’re like, remember the why thing? And you’re just like, Why do you have to keep asking me why, right? But at the end of the day, our brains are in tune with that and the brain asks why all the time. So if you don’t have a good understanding of the why behind something, have a good understanding of why your brain is asking you that then you can’t make any changes, and your brain will continue to ask why.
Jessica Weaver 02:27
Oh, that’s fascinating. It’s true as a young age, and I see I do with my own kids, we almost stifle their curiosity. We don’t want them to keep asking why? Because I’m going to go insane if they asked me why one more time. But it’s true. We should I approach everything with a very curious mentality of just wanting to know, can there be a different way? A better way? Is there another way? What are the ways? What are the options? Things like that? So it’s fascinating that you did it with your own approach? With yourself , you’re your own guinea pig in a way.
Brynna Wilson 03:00
Yeah. I feel like you get the best of it, if you do it on yourself first, right, because unless I know what they’re going through and what they think about.
Jessica Weaver 03:12
That’s awesome. What are some of the things that you’ve found out about yourself as you were on this journey?
Brynna Wilson 03:17
Yeah, you know, it’s, it’s been interesting, right? I come from a middle class family and a family of a well known restaurant in the in the Denver area. And so, you know, I kind of was afraid to talk about money, because I felt like people looked at me in that light of like, Oh, she she has a lot of money, or she is super wealthy. And so I would shy away from having money conversations. And a big thing is that I realized I would pay for other people a lot when we go out, you know, I buy everyone dinner or whatever, because I was trying to get rid of the money so I would fit in. And so you know, I had to really look at that. Okay, what is that behavior? Why am I doing that? And then how can I change that so that I have a better mentality around saving money and not spending it and not just spending it on other people, but also maybe investing in myself rather than in that relationship?
Jessica Weaver 04:10
Very interesting.. trying to get rid of the money. Was there a lot of guilt around money? Having money that you didn’t, because this is what I was told, you have to work hard to have money or you’re considered spoiled. I remember being called spoiled. So I have this guilt around money. Is that how you felt?
Brynna Wilson 04:29
Yeah, definitely. I mean, I grew up I was a hard worker, you know it was instilled, you have to work hard in order to get what you want. And so I’ve always been a hard worker, but I felt guilty because I felt like I had more than other people. And so I was trying to even the scale I guess, by getting rid of some money in a way that I could or help other people out. But what ended up happening is it hurt me more because then I didn’t have enough for myself at times. And so I struggled in that way and you know, it’s guilt. Money can divide us, we’re on different levels. And everyone thinks of it differently, right? And the people that have it don’t have to worry about not having it. I saw recently the Kardashians went to the grocery store, did you see that one? Well, they went to the grocery store. And they were just like, they get some backlash, because they’re so interested in what it’s like to actually just go to a grocery store and buy your groceries and pay at the cashier. And so for them, it doesn’t matter. But for other people, it’s going to work 15 hours a day and working really hard and manual labor just to get by and just have enough. So you can feel guilt if you feel like you have more than other people. At least that’s how I felt. So I just wanted to try and fit in. And even the scale, I guess.
Jessica Weaver 05:49
That happens a lot we try to blend in, to be accepted. And you’ve recently joined us at the woman’s wealth boutique. And we have similar conversations and stories of feeling like we had to fit in, in our industry even to take on this masculine approach just like sales, shoving it down people’s throats, pushing them along the pipeline, instead of being like, what if I want to sell a different way? And you being so aware of the behavioral finance, of course, you’re gonna want to sell and work with people in a different way. Can you talk to us about how because you’re unconventional , you’re dare we say controversial or innovative, whatever you want to call it, stepping outside the box of the norm. How have you made that shift, taking that risk from trying to blend in as you said, we’re doing even growing up, and then in the industry to now making the shift?
Brynna Wilson 06:45
Yeah, you know, it’s funny how, as I worked on myself, I was always afraid of the things that made me different. And yet, when I really looked at it, the things that made me different actually made me really good at what I do, right? So I’ve been told all my life that introversion is not great, right? Like you should be extroverted, you should go out and talk to people, and you have to network and you have to call clients and you have to do all these things. And yes, don’t get me wrong, I’ve had to get over some fears around making phone calls and talking to people. But at the same time, I realized that I’m an introvert, and I am very good at listening. And that’s what people want to talk about when they come to me, the clients want to talk about hard things. And often I get the conversation around people say I feel like I’m in therapy, you know, I have a box of tissues in my office, because it can be emotional, it can be hard, and I’m a really good listener. I’m there to hold space for people as an introvert and get into those deep conversations because money can be a deep conversation.
Jessica Weaver 07:51
Yeah. Beautifully said.
Brynna Wilson 07:53
Yeah. And at the same time, you know, it’s, you know, coming from a middle class family, and they have a small business, I understand that. But then, you know, I’ve gone through my own struggles of being female in a male driven industry, as you know, as well. And then on top of that, I identify an LGBTQ+ community. And so then I really felt like I had to prove myself, right, like, I can do these things and I can do it in the way that you tell me to and with learning how I work and what my strengths are, just the typical box didn’t fit me, I couldn’t fit into this box. And so I almost left the industry because I felt like, I can’t do this. This isn’t for me.
Jessica Weaver 08:39
Was that your breaking point? Would you say it’s like, enough?
Brynna Wilson 08:43
Yeah, yeah. I mean, it’s hard when you want something to work so badly and you feel like you have the potential. And yet everything you do, you just feel stuck. And you feel like you can’t shine your light as we talk about a lot. So being able to find a place at the Women’s wealth boutique, where I can be myself where I can shine my light where I can do the things I want to do and be more creative and more outgoing and more fun and goofy is exactly what I needed. And I didn’t know that that existed.
Jessica Weaver 09:14
Well, thank you for saying that. I love they use that holding space for people. It’s almost like you held space for yourself to be able to do that. And to get rid of the box, tear it apart, take a sledgehammer to it, break through and to let your own light shine. And it’s interesting you say you’re an introvert I would never really think that of you. But maybe it’s because I see you outside of the box. And maybe that’s how it’s supposed to be, to get out, to really be who we are and stop being what everybody else’s expectations of us are. It allows us to shine our light. So take me through, you are also a money coach. How do you help people with money coaching and what does that look like?
Brynna Wilson 10:01
Yeah. And you know, I get the question a lot, what’s the difference? How does that all work? And I feel like sometimes it goes hand in hand. But when it comes to coaching, it’s more about accountability and helping people really figure out what it is that they need. But then how do we continue making progress in those ways, right. So if you know, I’ve been an athlete all my life, I know you are too. And always having those coaches there to help you in practice and figure out what’s going on. So sometimes it could be doing a workshop with other people and learning from them. Those kinds of things. So it’s just about creating a space where you have a little bit more accountability, and thinking through things from a different perspective, rather than just the typical, these are the numbers, it’s more than that.
Jessica Weaver 10:52
I think the best piece that coaches offer is the getting out of our own mind, our own mindset. And to switching that very quickly. Since money is so emotional. Having the coaching as this aid is huge for people, I encourage everybody to have an advisor, money mentor, or coach, somebody. It’s like their advocate, have an advocate out there for you, who’s rooting for you, cheering you on, supporting you, educating you, whatever it is that you need to do.
Brynna Wilson 11:26
Well and I think that’s really important, what you just said, is having someone that advocates for you, it’s great to have a money mentor. But is that person really putting your best interests at heart? And do they understand what your goals are, what you’re trying to create, because everyone’s a little bit different. So what works for them may not work for you. So it’s really important to have someone that can give you that perspective, that’s an outside look. So you can understand really what it is that you need when somebody might work for something, or someone different.
Jessica Weaver 11:56
Yes, very true. Usually a mentor, I view it as the kind of teaching you how they did it. And that’s great. And it’s a huge resource, but it might not be the way that you want to do it. So then what? What is next for the name of your company? I mean, you’re under the Women’s Health Boutique umbrella, but your name of your company is Citrine and gold. How did that come about?
Brynna Wilson 12:19
Yeah, great question. You know, I’ve like I said, I deal with this logical, psychological, emotional, or behavioral finance side and Citrine actually, I found it, it’s a stone, I love it. It’s a gold, orange amber color, depending on what the stone is. But it really means happiness, abundance and prosperity. And I liked that thought process of having that side to my business. And then gold is that solid logical piece that most people associate with money, so I wanted to make sure I could blend the two.
Jessica Weaver 12:54
Oh, that’s beautiful. Approaching it from both sides, that’s what our industry just tends to focus on that strong side, the numbers, the facts, but we can’t make a decision without our emotions in there, can we? We’re told we should remove all emotions with your money, and you’d be better ambassadors, it’s impossible. We’re fired.
Brynna Wilson 13:18
You can try as hard as you want. But you know, our beliefs and our emotions kind of drive us generally. And we can be more aware of them and that’s great. But can we use those to our advantage and come from a place of power with those emotions and the awareness behind it?
Jessica Weaver 13:34
I like how you said that come from a place of power. I just see picture as like a superhero, right? What’s that power pose, superhero pose. We do that with our kids a lot. You are very big on work/life balance and approaching life in a way that you can still have enjoyment and earn the money that you’re after or deserve, worthy of, whatever the context is. How did you come about that? Has that always been ingrained in you that you always wanted to make sure that you can have passion in your work and passion in your life?
Brynna Wilson 14:11
Yeah, this has been an interesting road for me. As I’m sure with most people. You know, as I said, when I was younger it was work really hard and work long hours and do what you have to do to get by and so I did that. I worked three jobs. I’ve done all of the things- worked long hours every week, especially when I first started in the industry. And well it worked and I do believe that you have to work hard. I’ve come to realize that I have to also work smart and for me to work smart that means giving myself and my body time to rest, time to have fun, time to play, so that I can show up in a better place. And you know, it’s taken me a long time. But you know, there’s a sad piece is that my brother was 25 when he passed away in 2006. It was hard, you know, my oldest brother, it was hard to deal with. And I’ve kind of come to terms with pieces of it, you know, as I’ve gotten older as I’ve felt ready to take it on. But what really stands out to me is life is way too short, and you never know what’s going to happen. So if I’m just working 80 hours a week, and not enjoying life and not being in the present moment, it’s like I tell my clients, it’s great to save money for the future. But also, what do you need right now? What do you need in the present moment, because life is too short to not enjoy it. And so that work life balance has really become important to me. And I want to show up in my best form for the people that I care about. And that includes my clients.
Jessica Weaver 15:42
It sounds like you’re you’re teaching your clients to do the same, or encouraging them. Yeah. What are some tips or tricks that you use for yourself, for your clients to make that happen?
Brynna Wilson 15:56
Yeah, I mean, we have a lot of conversations, I work with a lot of business owners, small business owners, specifically female business owners. And a big question is, what do we charge? What are we charging, and you know, I go to all my friends, I say, hey, raise your rates, you know, and they tell me the same thing too. And while we may not always do that.
Jessica Weaver 16:18
Pause this and raise your rates, whosever listening.
Brynna Wilson 16:23
It’s hard to do, you know, we always overthink it and worry about who we’re alienating, because we all just want help people at the end of the day, but one is raising your rates and making sure that you’re getting paid what you’re worth and your time and that you’re valued. And then too, it’s really just understanding that while we want to help everyone, we can’t help everyone. There’s just too many people in the world.
Jessica Weaver 16:47
That is a lesson to be learned, yes.
Brynna Wilson 16:50
So who can we focus on and spend our time there, so that we’re not just going out and trying to help everyone so that we have more time to focus on those individuals, and save time for ourselves and for our families.
Jessica Weaver 17:05
How do you find the right people? How do you figure out those people you can help them most maybe make the most impact or resonate the most with? How do you find your audience maybe we’ll call it?
Brynna Wilson 17:16
Yeah, um, you know, I don’t know that I have figured this out, I’m still perfecting it for me. But I would say that it’s getting really specific on who you want to work with rather than saying I’ll work with anyone. You got to get really specific on who you want to work with. And then also, I think a big thing is surrounding yourself with people that you like, and that would be an ideal client for you but maybe they’re not your client. Maybe it’s your friends, maybe it’s your mentor, maybe it’s your networking group or something like that. Because the more people you surround yourself with, that are of that caliber, the more you become of that caliber, and then you’ll find other people that are like that, because we tend to as humans flock with those people that were pretty in common with.
Jessica Weaver 18:04
Yes, you’re a result of your environment. That is very true. Yeah, who you enjoy just being around is such a great gauge. And I love that you said that for it.
Brynna Wilson 18:17
Yeah, I spend a lot of my time, you know, I only really do word of mouth referrals and things like that. But that’s because I join groups that I enjoy. And so I’m with a hiking group, or a biking group or something like that, because I just want to be there. And then those people end up being ideal clients for me. And we get to be friends rather than just the advisor client relationship.
Jessica Weaver 18:42
That’s a different dynamic. I love that. I want to bring up because you’re being very controversial right now. Our industry has trained us to work with everybody and anybody. And then you look at your book of business, your client lists, and you’re like, there’s nothing in common with any of them. Where do we go from here? But you said, let’s focus on who you actually enjoy working with? Like, how dare you say that Brynna. Your old manager was probably scheming in her skin. No, that’s the opposite of what we train, but you have to enjoy. That’s part of the work/ life balance. You have to enjoy your own work.
Brynna Wilson 19:20
You show up differently when you enjoy your work, and you show up differently when you enjoy who you’re working with. If I’m working with people that I don’t enjoy, then I just dread getting up in the morning and I don’t want to do it. But if I’m like oh I get to see so and so today. I’m so excited. I haven’t talked to them in a little while I wonder what’s going on or, or I just talked to them last week. It’s okay because I get to talk to them again. You know if we saw each other at an event or a gathering or something like that, it’s just amazing how much more fun it is when you can be with people that you like and enjoy.
Jessica Weaver 19:56
I remember, you just reminded me we were we’ve worked with similar coach Robin crane, shameless name plug. And I remember O was on the phone with her and I said, there’s this prospect, and I’m not even looking forward to the initial phone call. And she goes, well there’s a red flag right there that you shouldn’t work with them. I’m like, you’re right, this should be the honeymoon stage, right? Well, we’re just getting to know each other, we like each other, and I physically am getting sick, coming up to the call, I’m nauseous, I have a headache, I’m sweating. And you know what? I should pass around to somebody who will get along with her a lot better. Yeah, it’s just, and that’s true. We’re not, I’m not everybody’s advisor, not everybody’s cup of tea, and vice versa. But there’s abundance, there’s so many people who can help.
Brynna Wilson 20:43
Well, you’re actually doing the client a favor, right? Because if you feel like you’re not a good fit for them, then you’re actually helping them out. Because then they’ll find their person, the person that will really help them that they’ll listen to that they’ll connect with. And so you sometimes worry about saying no. But if you’re like me and worried about what other people are gonna say, or think or whatever you can come from it of that perspective of I’m actually helping you, because you and I will not work well together. And I want you to find the person that will work best for you so that you can have the best.
Jessica Weaver 21:21
Yes, that’s a great perspective to look at it. And that should be a reminder every time. Am I excited to be on this call? Is this bringing my energy up? Or is it bringing my energy down? And if it’s bringing my energy down it’s not serving anybody in this world. Awesome. Thank you for that. Anything else you want to share with us ,any more money behavioral finance tips? Tell us one of your favorites, one of your go to’s? What is it?
Brynna Wilson 21:52
I just have so many, it’s hard to pick one. But I think that my favorite is just, what did you see your parents do when you were a kid, when it came to money? Did they argue? Or did they talk openly about it? Those kinds of things, because a lot of people say I wasn’t taught about money as a kid. And maybe that’s true, and most likely, it’s true. But also, what did you notice? What are the other things that aren’t said? Because actions are louder than words. And so can you look back and figure that out and then see how that’s showing up in your life today. So it creates that behavior for you.
Jessica Weaver 22:30
What was one of those moments for you, watching your parents?
Brynna Wilson 22:35
I think that it’s, you know, I always knew that we had what we needed. But we didn’t talk openly about it. So it was quite hush hush, don’t don’t say anything, you know, don’t share what you have, or how much you make or anything like that. And yes, I agree with that in certain cases, but find your people, find your group of people , find it, find your as I like to say Financial Committee, those people that you can go to and support you in order to share those pieces and do better.
Jessica Weaver 23:07
That’s amazing. I want to share with you my biggest memory was my mom and I love to go shopping together. Retail therapy, we’d have so much fun, it was the one thing that really bonded us. But when we would get home, she would go “leave the bags in the trunk”. Why was she doing it? Because we will walk in the door and my father would go- “How much money did you spend?” It wasn’t the first question of-” Did you have a good time, what did you buy? How much money did you spend?” So I- within one instance, money’s really exciting, and shopping is great and bonding too, you can’t spend money on those things you’re not thinking it through, it’s not part of the plan. And to this day having to look at my own behavioral finances, as you say, realizing I’m a little bipolar when it comes to spending and saving money. I’m a bit of a roller coaster. And it’s, I need to become aware of it so I don’t teach the same things to my kids. Those patterns.
Brynna Wilson 24:05
Yeah you don’t want to feel guilty when you’re spending money. And again, like come from that place of power of I know I can spend this money because I’ve tracked my money. I know how much I can spend. I don’t want to feel guilty about it. And being able to have fun in the present moment without having to worry about what’s going to happen next.
Jessica Weaver 24:21
Yes, so yeah, I need some of your help, because that is still a recurring thing. Where can everybody find you?
Brynna Wilson 24:31
Yeah. So I have a website. It’s www.citrineandgold.com And then also you can find me on Facebook and Instagram at Citrine and gold and feel free to email, call. I’m looking forward to talking with everyone.
Jessica Weaver 24:48
Awesome. Thank you, we’ll have those links in the bio as well with the release of this. Thank you so much for being on here. Thank you for being one of the OG’s, one of the original Wealth Advisors to join us at a woman’s point boutique. You’re amazing, I love your work and love what you’re doing with your community , so thank you Brynna!
Brynna Wilson 25:05
Thank you so much!